@minego Seems pretty standard to me: https://llvm.org/docs/CodeOfConduct.html

@JordiGH I assumed as much. Much better that they leave now instead of waiting for a problem and making someone inforce the CoC, because they know there will be a problem.

@JordiGH I don't read CoC's, but generally try to adhere to Wheaton's Law for online interaction, and leave if that becomes a problem.

@JordiGH And FWIW, I mostly uninvite myself from groups which say I should get access to less because of what my gender or skin color is. If an employer touts itself as an "affirmative action employer" for instance, I assume they don't really want me anyways, and do them the favor of not applying. Probably helps their numbers to have one less white male applicant, so I'm doing them a favor.

I probably wouldn't quit a group over them doing the Outreachy thing though.

@ocdtrekkie On the other hand, I hear, I get to work with lots of people who are different from me? Hell yes, I want to work with people who are different!

@JordiGH Sure, but I can work with people who are different from me anywhere. Especially on the Internet.

But like, why would I put a significant amount of effort into something which the result could be more or less "really like what I see here, but wish your skin was a different color"?

@JordiGH If you send the message that you value other people more than someone because of their skin color or gender, can you really be shocked if that someone wants to go elsewhere?

And I mean, doubly so for an open source community, where I assume this dev was doing free labor to begin with.

@ocdtrekkie Also, you should try applying to a place that isn't full of dudes like you. You might like it! And there's a good chance that the colour of your skin won't be a reason for rejecting you. Try it!

@JordiGH Why do you assume any place I apply is "full of dudes like me"? Pretty big assumption that the only places that have diversity are places which actively discriminate by skin color...

@ocdtrekkie I said online it's mostly only dudes like you. Clearly if you don't do some encouragement to get other kinds of people, you don't get variety.

@JordiGH I honestly couldn't tell you the gender, sexual orientation, or skin color of most of the people I interact with online. It's usually not super relevant.

EtherCalc is not an awesome project because the developer is transgender. EtherCalc is an awesome project because the developer is an awesome developer.

@ocdtrekkie You don't notice those things because they match your own. It's not too different so it's not something you notice.

@JordiGH Or I don't notice because Pull Requests don't require you submit your gender, sexual history, or skin color.

People's ability to participate should never be gated by skin color, gender, or sexual orientation. We need to remove those obstacles, not create new ones.

@ocdtrekkie The gates are already there, but you're lucky enough to ignore them yourself because the gates are not for you. Outreachy is trying to tear down gates that don't apply to you but apply to others.

@JordiGH No, establishing color and gender checks is not "tearing down gates", it's putting them up.

We need to TEAR DOWN the gates. Aka: Actively and zealously shut down anyone who limits someone based on their skin color, gender, or sexual orientation. And keep doing it until all of the gates are gone.

@ocdtrekkie It's too difficult to do that. People don't know their own prejudices. Telling everyone don't be a bigot doesn't work because nobody thinks they're a bigot, so nobody alters their own behaviour. I'm certain you don't think you're a bigot and you seem pretty sure to think you have no prejudices. Believe me, you do. I do too. We all do.

You have to go out and do *outreach*. That's the only thing that has ever tipped the scales.

@JordiGH You can't "even out" bigotry and racism by creating programs that exclude people by gender or skin color. It doesn't work. It may make you feel better in the short term, or help one or two people, but it won't break down the persistent problem.

You have to *destroy* bigotry and racism. We need to bring society past this.

@ocdtrekkie This *is* how you destroy bigotry and racism. By reaching out and bringing people in who would otherwise not participate. By encouraging to them participate and interact with bigots like you and me.

@JordiGH Bigotry doesn't solve bigotry.

@ocdtrekkie The current situation isn't symmetrical. Which is why an outreach program isn't symmetrical either. You need asymmetry to counteract the existing asymmetry. If you add to equal things to both sides of an unbalanced equation, the equation is going to remain unbalanced. Instead, you need to add more to the smaller side.

@JordiGH As I said, you can't "even out" bigotry and racism. Just creates more bigotry and racism to go around. Raises more people believing it's okay to treat people differently based on these things.

@ocdtrekkie I have said homophobic and transphobic things. I've tried to get better. And you know what? Mastodon is helping me change my views. There are so many marginalised people here I can interact with that transphobic and homophobic things I've believed seem like inconceivable lunacy. How could I have ever believed the things I did?

If Masto hadn't made an effort to reach out to those people, I wouldn't have been exposed to them, and my opinions wouln't change.

@ocdtrekkie You don't really get to work with people all that different from you on the internet. It's like 99.9% dudes on the internet. Not very different.

@ocdtrekkie I mean, free software/open source stuff on the internet. There are almost no women. There's not a lot of variety in the kind of person who does this.

@Jo He seems to be more cautious than that, at least in the writings he publicly attaches to his name.

@tromey Yeah, I don't understand it at all why this was so offensive. And what's this about a license change discussion?