Man, frick the stupid salary taboo.

We should all be talking about salaries.

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Here, screw it. I make 80k CAD per year. It's under the national average of 90k for the kind of work I do (software stuff). I should be making more.

We should all be making more. Wealth inequality is growing all around the world and it's awful.

@JordiGH I'm making $35 an hour, and I have been angry for a very long time that the only people who will hire me pay by the hour @WizardOfDocs Yeah, we all deserve more. And more stability. work frustration @JordiGH there are so many things I don't like about my job, and yet I'm still trying my damnedest to become full-time because I'm sick of being a contractor what I really want is for Google to give me the placement and the absurd amount of money they promised me last fall, to stop stringing me along and give me my community of writers back @JordiGH yeah average income around 80K and it’s not for software developers even, so guess you need talk to your boss about it @3PADyH Or I need to find a job I can quit to. @JordiGH you know better 🤓 @JordiGH I bill USD 75-120 / hour, depending on the client. All my work is hourly and comes with no benefits, but at that rate it's actually a good living even with the slow months. @JordiGH And wow, that was a weirdly hard post to write even though I 100% agree about the importance of sharing this info. The taboo is as strong as it is harmful. @eldang Yeah, I was also really hesitant to post my salary. I was thinking, huh, why? I don't think anything bad will happen if I do, do I? So why won't I do it? That's a pretty good rate, if you can get some 20 hours per week on average. I hope you can. Well, pretty good to make a living, I think? It's kind of nice you can set your own rate. I wish I could negotiate more money per task I do. Maybe. I'm not sure. @JordiGH 20 billable hours / week is my goal, and I generally manage to _average_ that, though with a lot more variation month-to-month than I'd really like. Right now I'm well below but also have savings and a move coming up, and it's taking a lot of effort to let myself enjoy having less work and not panic about it. @JordiGH Negotiating is hard, especially in an existing job. Even as a contractor, the only project I've managed to raise my rate during the course of was the one that ran for ~5 years. In that time I got two raises, and then a "the funder won't accept raising your rate, but just quietly pad your hours instead". So I mostly raise rates between projects. It's tough - no-one ever says I'm charging too much, but I second-guess myself about every contract I don't get. @eldang I find that we continuously underestimate our own worth *because we don't talk about salaries*. I hate it! The friggin taboo WORKS! @JordiGH Have you considered joining the #IWW and organising? @aidalgol I have. Maybe I should actually do it. @JordiGH how many years of experience do you have? @NicolasConstant 15 or 20 depending how you count. @JordiGH oh wow, yes that's low even for Montreal standards (our cost of life here is lower than Toronto or Vancouver so the national average may not be the better referential here). You should be with a 6 digit salary with that much experience! @JordiGH are you on LinkedIn? This is how I determine my value on the market: I respond to most solicitations and I try to do interviews on a regular basis. I always ask +15k/+30k from my current salary to see how people reacts. If they don't get scared by it, I understand I'm underpaid and I have some leverage for future negotiations. You shouldn't have to wait for others to disclose their incomes to realize you're underpaid/overpaid: just keep in touch with the market and ask for big rises, you'll have immediately the right information. If you'd like to have a better visibility from head-hunters on Montreal, add me on LinkedIn (search for my name), I have a bunch of them in my contacts and they offer me new positions on a regular basis. @NicolasConstant I'm very picky about jobs and I don't trust LinkedIn as a social network. I'm also patient. I'll find a better job. My salary right now is low but it's enough to make a living. @JordiGH I'm also really picky myself, but LinkedIn gives me information/visibility I'd be struggling to get otherwise. Time to time you also get to meet really interesting projects and people, you don't have to invest any time on it really, it's not a social network, it's just a database of resumes. For sure 80k is really great for MTL, and way higher than a lot of folks. Lets face it, we're privileged. But earning more don't prevent you from redistributing the extra money in a way it make more sense for you (I've done it multiples times). If the job opportunity is interesting of course - trading money against quality of life is not a good deal - but from what I'm seeing today on MTL, you shouldn't struggle to find a nice job with a better salary: currently there is a total shortage of seniors, the salaries has skyrocketed (currently from what I'm seeing: master degree 0 years of XP around 60-65k, master degree 10 years of XP 120-130k, above it depends too much of the position but it will be higher), if you're willing to increase your income, it's the perfect time. @JordiGH I'm paid ~£35k ($60k CAD), and my pay spine is public - anyone can see how much I'm paid as a public sector worker. Everyone knew how much I was being paid when I worked in a shop - same as the job adverts available for the same company.

The idea of people being open with their salary isn't even alien in the West, it's only in the private sector, white collar class.

@JordiGH I have 2 companies. First one I draw a salary of 52k/yr (this hasn't changed in 10 years), second one I draw a salary of 48k/yr (USD)

I could pay myself more but I prefer to funnel that into the business and employees. Also aggressive saving which **saved** one of my companies last year.

While I'm very comfy I make way way less than I would if I went to a normal tech co. I'm always shocked to see what ppl make outside of the US as tech workers. Very unfair!

@JordiGH I'm making us$150k/yr at a nonprofit hospital. I find myself kind of hard to benchmark, "data scientist" has pretty different meanings across companies/industries and there aren't that many of us working in health care. But I'm probably underpaid. I would make easily another$100k jumping ship for a FAANG, if I could pass their technical interviews.

@mcmoots @JordiGH Friendship ended with computer science now data science is my best friend!

@JordiGH yes. And all job postings should give at least a range. I’ve taken to replying to job listings I don’t want, pushing them on this issue. Sometimes it seems to work, often I feel like I just shouted into the void.

@JordiGH Can't argue there. It's a mess.

I do "software stuff" too, and I doubt it's a lot different than what you do, and I get about $320k USD/year for it. FAANG wages, right? I'm not even past the middle of the bell curve for my pay grade. @offby1 Holy crap. I thought the average of the bell curve at FAANG was 200k @JordiGH it is, if you cover all levels @JordiGH I'm moderately senior. @offby1 So does this come with a lot of stress and questioning of your self worth or did you just hit the white-collar jackpot? @JordiGH it comes with a recognition that I got phenomenally lucky in my career, and that while yes, I am good at this, lots of other people are as good as me and didn't have the same opportunity or luck... and I think I can guess why. @offby1 I don't know if I could get a job at FAANG. I only tried once, maybe twice. But I think I would be very unhappy if I did, even if I got your salary. @JordiGH I can see how that might be the case. I love it, but it's not for everyone. @JordiGH @offby1 god damn, when I was at MSFT I had to leave to crack$100k. This was in 2008. I topped out at like $120k in full time software work in 2012. Now I’m a freelancer, I charge between$80 and \$120 per hour, USD.

@nein09 @offby1 Is that a wage gap I see?

@JordiGH @offby1 prrrrrobably, exacerbated by the fact that I was doing test automation for much of that time. (The industry loves to stick women on test teams.)

@JordiGH @offby1 (never mind that I was still writing software, never mind that I still have a masters degree in this shit, never mind that I’m writing production code now and it’s actually easier to think about)

@nein09 @JordiGH The longstanding tendency to look down on test developers boggles my damn mind. Writing tests is _hard_. Reasoning about tests is harder. Designing testable systems is a huge skill.

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